A little while back, WFT Ireland chatted with member Eleanor McSherry, programme coordinator of and lecturer in Autism Studies at UCC (ACE). Eleanor is also the course leader of the accredited Certificate in Continuing Professional Development in Neurodiversity for the Screen Industry and Certificate in Continuing Professional Development in Wellbeing Coordination in the Arts & Creative Sectors , run by Screen Ireland – and she was recently appointed by Coimisiún na Meán in their Gender, Equality, Diversity and Inclusion Steering committee.
Eleanor, thank you so much for taking the time to chat with us. It’s very exciting to have you as our Member in Focus, especially as your work intersects the arts/culture and mental health sectors.
How did your relationship with the arts evolve, growing up and over the years, and when did the work around mental health come into play? How did the two start to intersect?
I have been involved in the arts in Limerick since I was nine years old, which was a long time ago. My first time on stage was when I appeared as a carol singer in A Christmas Carol at the Belltable Arts Centre in Limerick. Since then, I’ve had many jobs, both paid and unpaid, in various areas of the arts and creative sectors. I have worked in film as a scriptwriter, script supervisor, film festival company director, script editor, creative director of a film festival, and also in public relations for another film festival. I’ve also worked as a runner, co-producer, and film journalist with Film Ireland. In theatre, I’ve been involved in musical theatre, played secondary roles, worked as a props master, served as a company committee member, and handled public relations. Additionally, I have been a lecturer and academic, teaching film, journalism, creative writing, and neurodiversity in the arts and creative sectors.
I have also been an advocate for the arts in Limerick. I was part of the group pushing for a film studio, which eventually became Troy Studios. We also advocated for a film officer for Limerick, and we now have Film in Limerick. I represented filmmakers in Limerick, Ireland’s first City of Culture in Limerick 2014, Limerick 2020 bid, and in tourism and arts and culture strategies for Limerick city and county. I like to keep busy!
Mental health has been a longstanding passion of mine. I have been involved with suicide prevention in Limerick since I was young. Personally, I have experienced mental health issues and have seen its impact in the workplace. Additionally, I have lectured on our ‘Mental Health in the Community’ course at Adult Continuing Education at University College Cork. More recently, my passion for mental health has intersected with my love for the arts, film, and disability. Through my work at University College Cork, I have had the opportunity to bring together my life experiences and academic work to create a new short course for Safe to Create and Screen Ireland on Wellbeing Coordination for the arts and creative sector. My hope is that this course will produce home-grown wellbeing advisors for sets, theatres, events, and festivals.
How do you switch hats between your roles as a producer/ writer/ filmmaker – and lecturer and speaker? What different focuses do each of these require? How do they inform one another?
It can be challenging to switch between different jobs, but I love and enjoy each of them. I make sure to be fully focused on each job. I have always been good at multitasking, possibly due to my autistic brain and the fact that I think differently. I can hyperfocus on one thing at a time. I also use ‘To Do’ lists synced with my calendar and colour-coding to stay organized.
Everything I do in my life informs my work, and I feel fortunate that my life experiences have merged with my work and research areas. I consider myself lucky to be able to explore areas that are only now been fully explored talked about in television and film industry. I’ve also met some fantastic people who have helped me to get here. I feel like I’ve hit this at the right time, as people are now open to listening and bringing about change. It has taken most of my life to get here, but I am grateful, as my industry experiences have guided me. But I’m still learning.
Looking at some of the courses you coordinate (eg. Cert in Continuing Professional Development in Neurodiversity in the Screen Industry, Cert in CPD in Neurodiversity in the Arts and Creative Industry, Cert in CPD in Wellbeing Coordination for the Arts and Creative Industry), they seem to be designed to suit a production schedule, and a work life around that – what is your perspective of academia and how it can change to open up to and be more adapted to a larger proportion of the population and their needs?
Education saved my life. I had a goal, but I didn’t know how to get there. There was many limitations when I left school and if you didn’t have a really good leaving cert, you didn’t often get to do what you wanted. So as an adult I went back to university while caring for an autistic son along with his two brothers, while also trying to work in the industry. It often did not work, there was no support back in those days, so I opted out. Therefore, I understand the pressures of not working the typical 9-5 schedule, trying to fit life around work. It was more than just adapting, it was finding more hours in the day than I had. I also recognise the importance of education, especially in the rapidly evolving television and film sector. It’s crucial to stay updated with new developments, and I am mindful of incorporating the industry’s needs into the design of each course I develop because I’ve been there myself.
Before accrediting our courses, I conduct a pilot run to gather feedback from industry professionals. We are always learning something new, even when we don’t anticipate it. At Adult Continuing Education (ACE) at University College Cork, our focus is on creating customized courses for the industry. Additionally, through our “recognition of prior learning” initiative, we have a process by which prior learning is formally identified, assessed, and acknowledged. This is ground-breaking stuff. We aim to support individuals who may have struggled with traditional academic approaches and want to take into consideration years of work experience.
Our courses are adaptable, allowing us to address specific issues and provide educational solutions. This means we are constantly seeking innovative methods of educating and supporting the participants. We can’t improve work practices, workplaces or support people if we don’t have the education and training to do so.
Can you give us some insight into the process of designing one of your courses? How do you identify the needs of a particular segment of participants, what is your main focus when you structure it?
Designing a university-accredited short course for industry can take up to eighteen months, but it is worth it. I begin by identifying the gap in the industry or an organisation, like Screen Ireland’s Grainne Bennett came to me with an idea for the neurodiversity in the screen industry course. Then I carry out some research and work with the industry partner to create a course outline, taking into consideration the participants and their needs. So the courses are as bespoke as we can make them for the industry and the potential participants but within the confines of academic system. I also look to see if there is another course like this anywhere and what do they offer. I’ve been lucky so far that my courses, are the first university accredited courses of their kind in any college globally, which is fantastic but also daunting. I then present the idea to management at ACE. If they are happy, I create a pilot programme where we bring in participants to do the course, and they tell us, often very frankly, if we are on the right track. We then create a report for the industry partner and the university, allowing us to spend the next year getting university accreditation. It’s a very rigorous process, but seeing the finished product, it is worth it.
Your work in film spans a range of roles and spaces, from film festivals, to productions of various budgets – when it comes to smaller productions, or lower budget festivals/organisations, what would real support look like for creatives in the industry who are neurodivergent?
Firstly, get informed, learn, there is no reason, with fully funded or part funded courses available to you, not to. Be open to change and incorporate positive actions in your production. Often small changes can have the most impact, like clearer communications, not assuming everyone knows everything. Listen, to your colleagues and workers, often if we are stressed out, where we bite before we listen. We work in a very challenging, commercial and fast paced industry which often does not want to makes changes, the time is coming soon where, if you don’t make changes needed, you will be left behind. We are leaking talent, we need to cop on.
You also teach an advocacy course, so I would like to ask you what you considered some of the best ways that people can advocate to ensure fair treatment for every ability, in an organisation or a production set.
Firstly join a union. Educate yourself on your rights. Always ask the question, is it me or is this unreasonable behaviour? Never go to into a meeting mad or unprepared. Advocacy is about research, education, patience and resilience.
Congratulations on your new role within Coimisiún na Meán’s Gender, Equality, Diversity and Inclusion Steering committee!
Can you talk a little bit about what your role will entail, and what you hope to tackle?
I have just started in this two-year appointment, so I can’t say too much about it yet. I’m very honoured to be asked to contribute and bring my experiences in the industry to the table. I’m really looking forward to getting stuck into the role and providing a voice at the table for people like me – a neurodivergent woman who is used to being side-lined or ignored. The Steering Committee has been established to assist Coimisiún na Meán review the key actions contained in the GEDI Strategy and oversee the guidance it provides for the audio and audiovisual sector.
Eleanor shared with us that some of her responsibilities will include sharing learnings, insights and research relating to Gender, Equality, Diversity and Inclusion from other sectors or jurisdictions; offering independent advice on Gender, Equality, Diversity and Inclusion related matters, making independent recommendations on the future of Gender, Equality, Diversity and Inclusion in the sector and the role of Coimisiún na Meán in advancing this, and sharing information on training and developments relating to Gender, Equality, Diversity and Inclusion.
There is a significant proportion of women working in the film industry who are carers or who return to the industry after a number of years of caring for family members. Lately we see more attention being brought upon this crucial issue (with amazing organisations like Raising Films working to provide support) – What structures do you believe need to be in place in order to better support them, what can an organisation or workplace do to support members who express these needs?
This is a similar answer to the neurodiversity one, be open to change and incorporate positive actions into your production. Raising Films Ireland have some great ideas about also want to educate in how we can incorporate carers into the screen industry. If they had been there when I was trying to stay in film, I probably wouldn’t have left.
Shifting gears a little to the representation of diversity/inclusivity we might see on screen – as part of your work as a film review writer and festival director, what are some of the things that you really don’t want to see anymore, things that should best be avoided?
Stereotypes – no one wants to see them anymore. It’s just lazy, boring writing that serves no purpose. If you don’t know what the stereotype is, educate yourself. There’s no excuse – Google it. There’s no quick fix here. Realistic change is needed, with more nuanced and diverse depictions on screen, diversity behind the camera, and new types of stories being explored. We live in a big world, yet we keep seeing the same tired stories. We are creative, so let’s be creative!
What about some of the things that really capture your attention in a positive way?
Since I started this work, I have been greeted with such positivity and a strong willingness to learn, which I find very encouraging. There are some really progressive people in the Irish screen industry who are being innovative and creative. This is now being replicated in the whole arts and creative sector, which is only fantastic. We are the first country to push for real change, and we are actually starting to follow through on it. This can only mean great things for our future.
Can you share with us a short list (3-5 ) of some of your favourite films/TV shows that capture neurodiversity?
Geek Girl, Derry Girls, Will Trent, Sherlock, there are also a lot of animations that are really capturing what it is to be neurodivergent like Sponge Bob Squarepants and Pablo, to name just two. Ireland needs to catch up with more neurodivergent characters and neurodivergent storylines.
We were excited to learn about your love of animated films! What do you think animation gets better about representation and inclusion, than other forms of filmmaking don’t?
What can other film productions learn from animation about representation?
Animation Ireland are doing a fantastic job to encourage the representation of diversity in content and in the production team. They have such a great attitude to employment and content. They are highly innovative and creative but they are fearless. I can’t say enough about them. I love their work and they are a fantastic bunch of individuals.
You also do a lot of work as a consultant for productions around autism and neurodiversity – out of the many solicitations for consulting you surely must get, was there any specific one that surprised you or was particularly challenging? If so, could you share with us anything about it?
I’ve only started consulting on productions in the last year or so, I’m in the middle of my first one, it has been a great experience and I find the Production Company and crew are just amazing and willing to learn and listen. There was no challenges to be honest.
Taking into account how the discourse around neurodiversity may have changed over the years and the discussions that are opening up, what is your hope for the creative industries going forward?
It is imperative that we embrace change. The audience is demanding it, and failure to do so may lead them to seek alternative content. Additionally, there is legislative support in employment at a governmental level, and funding models are evolving. If we fail to adapt, there will be costly consequences. Let’s seize this opportunity to embrace change, as we have successfully done in the past. As creatives, we thrive on challenges.
Is there anything we can do, individually, to help in bringing about these changes?
Firstly spread the word about neurodiversity, our courses (there will be more), about advocacy and help us fight for change. People like me want to work, we are woman and working in the industry, all we ask for is a more inclusive culture in the industry which will take time, but we have time.
We would love to hear what projects you have in the works, can you share with us about any current and/or future projects?
I’ve a lot of things in development that unfortunately I cannot talk about them right now. They are very exciting and will hopefully have an international impact which is massively exciting.
Eleanor, thank you so much for your openness and insightful perspective. We are inspired by this conversation and we are looking forward to seeing and being part of these changes together.
You can find the courses designed and led by Eleanor here:
Cert in Continuing Professional Development in Advocacy
Cert in Continuing Professional Development in Neurodiversity (Screen Industry)
Cert in Continuing Professional Development in Neurodiversity (Arts and Creative Industries): contact Eleanor.mcsherry@ucc.ie
Cert in Continuing Professional Development in Wellbeing Coordination (Arts and Creative Industries): Eleanor.mcsherry@ucc.ie
About Eleanor McSherry
Eleanor McSherry BA MA PGCertTLHEd is a highly qualified Programme Coordinator/designer, researcher and lecturer with UCC (ACE). She lectures and gives workshops, in the areas of neurodiversity in the screen industry, autism studies, advocacy, disability studies, mental health, film scriptwriting, creative writing, film and media. Programme Coordinator/Designer/Lecturer: Diploma in Autism Studies, Cert in Continuing Professional Development (CPD) in Neurodiversity in the Screen Industry, Cert in CPD in Advocacy, Cert in CPD in Neurodiversity in the Arts and Creative Industry, Cert in CPD in Wellbeing Coordination for the Arts and Creative Industry and Cert in CPD in Neurodiversity in the Workplace. She is currently doing her PhD within Maynooth University’s Media Department looking at autism in television drama.
Eleanor has been heavily involved in the film industry in Limerick as a filmmaker, advocate and representative, since 2008. She is a multi-shortlisted short film scriptwriter since 2009 and has worked in a number of roles with various production companies in the Mid-West of Ireland. She has been a freelance journalist for many years including, until recently, with Film Ireland. She also has worked with several film festivals, in roles such as a creative director, public relations and film judge.
